Tag: Evidence

What if We Destroy all Religious Books? – Ricky Gervais

“If you took all the works of fiction and holy books and destroyed them, in a 1000 years they would still be gone. But if you took all the works of science, in a 1000 years they would have all come back. Because all the tests would bear the same results.”

Ricky Gervais is a popular, frankly hilarious, and talented actor and comedian. Whether you like his particular brand of non-pc humor, you cannot deny his success, bravery, and wit. Personally I like most of his stuff, other than the poignantly anti-Christian stuff, but as a person who appreciates free speech, and a free market, I support his rights to speak on whichever topics in whatever way works for him.

I bring Mr. Gervais up today, on my little blog, to verbalize a thoughtful retort to one of his famous challenges against religion: “If you took all the works of fiction and holy books and destroyed them, in a 1000 years they would still be gone. But if you took all the works of science, in a 1000 years they would have all come back. Because all the tests would bear the same results.”

He has stated this multiple times in interviews, and remains one of the funniest and most likeable atheists, but upon hearing this over and over for years, I felt compelled to provide contrary ammunition for the Christian who may not know how to respond. The assertion itself is faulty, and as is usually the case with atheists, they paint themselves as logical, reasonable believers in empirical data and truth alone, while the religious appeal to unprovable magic and miracles.

I have explained the difference between empirical and historical or forensic sciences before, but a quick recap of how we must interpret data.

The Eiffel tower has testable attributes. Some of these are:

1,063 ft tall
Wrought Iron Lattice Tower
Weight is 10,100 tons
Located on the Champ de Mars in Paris, France

If one were inclined, one could test and re-test for the accuracy of any of these statements. In Mr. Gervais’ example, yes, if these facts were all lost, they could all be recovered again, and restated in books as demonstrable, observable, repeatable, without any deviation, just like the boiling point of water. But what about these facts?

The Engineer was Gustave Eiffel-
The Tower was finished in 1889-

How do we know these are correct? If this information was lost, what would the tower be called? What date would be attributed. We might try to date the metal based on rust, and chemical tests, get some some spectrum of years with a tolerance between 1715 and 1940. If we do not have trusted historical sources to conclude facts from, we would be lost on all lost forensic data! This means that for many disciplines, we must find those historic, written sources, accurate, not tampered with, and found to fit the proper historical context. No one questions these two historical facts today, but it brings about an interesting point. The facts in this case must be believed; they are not testable, and repeatable.

All history is this way, including Biblical history, Cryptology, Archeology, Criminal forensics, Geology, Paleontology, and Cosmology.

So to Mr. Gervais’ assertion, would we indeed have the exact same books with the exact same facts? Yes, the math, experimental physics, chemistry, engineering, all empirical books would be recreated almost exact, and learned the same by Christian and atheist alike.

But what if we look at a couple of presuppositions disappearing, such as evolution, or the Big Bang Theory. Take dark matter as an example. This supposedly bountiful material, made up, and totally untestable, is used as an explanation of how first generation stars were formed in a vacuum of space (still very unclear how that process would work even if this imagined material existed). Dark matter is also needed to explain the gravity keeping spiral arms in tact on a spinning galaxy such as the Milky Way, because when you apply billions of years to it, actual science and math determine that it should have dissipated into a blurry mess by now.

Is it conceivable that if Dark Matter theories were destroyed, and a new people in a thousand years were offered the same exact data points, they might conclude that first generation stars could not have organized themselves naturally, and no mysterious material was aiding the impossible process? Is it conceivable that upon building back up all the lost observable data about the visible universe, and its motion, scientists might have to conclude that the spiral arms can’t be that old, that the clock like precision of the solar system looks designed, and that comets are young? Perhaps these scientists rebuilding all lost scientific knowledge in the future would refrain from invoking make-believe fudge factors to bolster a naturalist point of view. Afterall, that is exactly what the fathers of modern scientists thought when they first began to discover these things! It was obvious to them that a Creator organized the universe! Were they not in the exact same position that Gervais was describing once upon a time? And they concluded that God was a reasonable, and more likely answer!

What about scientists stumbling across the Grand Canyon 1000 years from now, and having to determine a geological cause? Without dedication to presupposition of deep time, a non-empirical belief, they would have to draw conclusions from what they observe, yes? Perhaps these scientists of the future would note data such as:

„Middle is higher elevation than the head waters (Kaibab Plateau)

„Both sides agree uplift of center occurred before the river was there (water doesn’t run uphill; another great observation for second graders)

„Gargantuan river delta that should be present is missing if the 1000 cubic miles of mud and rock were washed away slowly

„Stable, shear cliffs, little rock fall – not slow erosion, but washed out

„No Talus at base of cliffs – Amphitheaters hundreds of feet of sheer Cliffside over one mile from water, with no debris (washed out)

„It is relict – unchanged from what formed it, stable in current condition.

Perhaps without the tainting of modern uniformitarian paradigms, these hypothetical scientists would indeed conclude that this geological feature is quite obviously the result of a massive flood. Slow erosion could not have created it, nor could any river system imaginable, or observable on this earth.

This is only two of MANY examples of how present day scientists interpret facts to explain an observation. Using wisdom, and maturity, Mr. Gervais, and anyone who is touting this clever statement as a dismissal of the religious as illogical, can quickly see that it does not hold water. In fact, many new conclusions would be present, some I’m sure closer to reality, while others would inevitably be even more ridiculous than the Big Bang model, and evolution.

Luckily, all out historic knowledge HASN’T been destroyed, and we do indeed have not only a well-recorded history of when the Eiffel Tower was built, but also of the lineage, prophecies, and narratives of the Jewish nation. We have the religious, moral, and social result of a historic Resurrection of the Messiah, Jesus Christ. And we have centuries of Christian and secular writings verifying a long and rich history that helps us interpret and understand the data we find. If not for these histories, all present data and understanding would be so fractured, it would be almost impossible to be certain of anything.

So no, this statement, while it does sound clever initially, has no bearing on Christianity. In fact, the discovery of the organized universe has led many to belief in a Creator God. “For his invisible attributes, namely, his eternal power and divine nature, have been clearly perceived, ever since the creation of the world, in the things that have been made. So they are without excuse.” – Rom.1:20

New Testament: Internal Evidence of Early Completion

The defense of the Bible, Apologetics, is a complex and fascinating area of study. It can be scientific, or philosophical; it can examine scripture text, or archaeological history. Many books on many facets have been written, none of which are exhaustive. One area of apologetics defends the Bible itself, not only if it has been accurately passed down to us, but if the words passed down to us are in fact true, based on evidence.

Meticulous studies in ancient literature have proven to hold the New Testament in the highest esteem, and beyond reproach in regards to how accurate the translations are. In fact, it stands so far above other historical books from authors such as Homer, Pliny, and Plato, that to question the accuracy of the Bible, would be to throw all ancient writings into utter obscurity. This article is not about that, but instead, about one of the Evidences of its historical accuracy. (for an overview of other common evidences, click here).

One of the main six is “Early Testimony.” This study, like the others can get in depth, and many scholars put much of the New Testament authorship within the first several years after Christ’s death and resurrection. As a contrast, the first writings of Buddha are approximately 400 years after the actual life of Siddhartha, and the Hadith describe the collection of the Koran as having been cobbled together from certain traditions by an Islamist long after Muhammad’s death, who then had all copies not accepted collected and burned for the sake of solidarity.

But there is one particular aspect of early testimony evidence I found fascinating. And that is the destruction of Herod’s temple in 70 AD, 40 years after the Resurrection.

As you may or may not know, after rebellion and years of tension, the Roman Emperor Nero sent Titus into Jerusalem with 30,000 troops, and slaughtered 600,000 Jews, while summarily burning Herod’s revitalized temple to the ground. The fire was so hot, it melted the gold so that it ran down between the cracks of the stone. When looters came to retrieve the gold, they ripped down each stone from the others to get to this gold, thus fulfilling Christ’s prophecy:

Matthew 24:1 Jesus left the temple and was walking away when his disciples came up to him to call his attention to its buildings. 2 “Do you see all these things?” he asked. “Truly I tell you, not one stone here will be left on another; every one will be thrown down.”

Now, picture yourself as a soon to be New Testament writer. You grow up seeing Herod renovate the temple. It is the cornerstone of your faith, and became such a glorious structure that it, rather than God, began to be revered by your neighbors and friends. Your sins were forgiven there. The high priest conducted ceremony there. It was the cornerstone of your faith, the economy, the culture. It’s importance to the Jewish people could not be overstated.

And then, this Jesus comes along, performs miracles, and predicts His own death and resurrection, and prophecies that the venerated Jewish temple adored by your people will soon be so much rubble scattered to the winds of history. When he dies, you and your contemporaries soon see Him appearing alive, and can touch His wounds. You eat with Him, and watch Him ascend into the sky. And inspired to risk your life, elevate Gentiles to the same platform as the Jew, and go against the priests of your day, you spread this new gospel message, and write of all you had seen.

To the crux of the issue; if the temple you worshiped at for decades had been utterly leveled, 600,000 Jews murdered, the city decimated, and its people scattered, thus fulfilling the very prophecy your savior had foretold, punctuating the year Titus destroyed all you ever knew and loved, do you think you would mention it? Do you think one of the authors of the New Testament would have finished their historical narrative by stating the temple had come down?

There are numerous internal evidences in the word that point to the fact that its writers had first hand, eye-witness knowledge of the times. Locations, language, details, key historical figures, all mentioned with the accuracy of someone present. Meticulous history is presented. Is it possible that all 8 of the New Testament writers somehow failed to mention this monumental event which just so happened to corroborate what their messiah said would happen?

We do know it happened; it is a plain matter of history, a mere 40 years after Christ died and rose again.

This is strong evidence that the entire New Testament was finished, before 70 AD. We can be certain that these writers, who included details about who among them was martyred, who went to jail, and who even included embarrassing details in their telling, for example their cowardice at times, would have at least noted this siege, if not dedicate entire chapters to it!

History records this later, and yes, Christ was proven to be right, fulfilling yet another prophecy, and further verifying the truth of the word of God. But this realization also proves to us something else. How soon after Christ these events were recorded. Within less then 40 years, the new Christian church was copying, and circulating the very words you have today. Remarkable!